Hi, how are you doing this week? Yeah, it can be good. We can have good weeks. We can have really strong weeks, and we can also have really difficult times, can't we? It's like a roller coaster ride. Being married to someone or being in love with someone, struggling with addiction, it's really hard.
I hear what you're saying as far as being "dignified." I like to take the high road myself.
But there's a fine line between that and losing your sense of self. I am at a point where I am angry with myself for not dealing with it head-on. He is a narcissist, so I guess that's a good enough reason to not speak my mind. It wouldn't matter what I said anyway, so I just learned to not say anything at all. I am a peace maker, by nature and I don't want to fight.
But I am taken advantage of because of it. I now seem to have this complex about not having a voice. Feeling stifled is becoming a theme in my life. So, to survive, I just go on my merry way, do my own thing and try to let things roll off my shoulders. It feels like denial.
But I'm tired of that. After 37 years of allowing his wreckless, disrespectful and selfish behavior, I don't think it was the right way to handle it at all. I should have put my foot down so long ago. I never learned how to establish boundaries. And I'm still struggling with it.
And this I say as being newly divorced for not even a month. And he's STILL ON MY COUCH!! So that's where I'm at today. I felt like venting. I would love any feedback anyone would like to offer.
When my husband relapses, I think of him as Clyde because I don't like that name and I don't like the person he becomes. When I am tempted to open up, I try to tell myself that my husband is asleep and I am sharing space with this person so I try to be polite, non- comittal and distant. That does make it easier.
Also, when I am being lied to or when he contradicts himself seven different ways in as many minutes, I am tempted to call out the BS but then I remind myself that Peace is more important and it won't matter anyway. I can address the lies later.
The dignity phrase is good..that helps especially for those in- between times when they aren't completely gone...but are getting there..or are emerging from the cloud.
This message came right on time! I’ve been working on distancing myself when i notice my SO is under the influence. And wasn’t sure if i was going the right way about it. You’re right about when they are sober they are fun and pleasant to be around but when not it’s just not it. I’ve gotten to the point where if that’s what he wants to do then that’s on him. I’m learning to find myself again and find healthier coping skills when he is drunk or high off coke i usually want to yell (get upset etc etc) and say “i thought you wouldn’t do this anymore” but it’s much more peaceful when i simple say a prayer for him and go on about my day. One day at a time!! Thank you Michelle for “love over addiction” it has helped me more then you’ll ever know!
I divorced a verbally abusive alcoholic at the age of 45 after a 30 year courtship + marriage. He was a cynical, angry drunk who blamed me for literally everything that went wrong in his life. I called it 'verbal diarrhea' as he would bitch incessantly (often to an empty room.)
In the early years I, too tried to take the high road (he wasn't as bad off then) and understand his misery. But as the addiction grew worse I gave up trying. When he refused to get help, I should have helped myself. I only wish I'd given up sooner and saved myself and my children from years of dysfunction. Hindsight is 20/20 and codependency keeps us in destructive relationships.
Michelle, I’m a mighty, talented woman before marrying and after divorcing my high school love of 38 years. Through your program, I regained my self-respect, energy, and love for my brain( it’s a beautiful brain). Staying with a man dying from alcoholism/addiction was EXHAUSTING! But I learned so much about myself throughout the years. It’s an arduous experience balancing my previous life with my current life, EXPECTATING a good life, and working to heal and reframe my thoughts worked best for my recovery. I started my journey hidden, without a voice, very lonely, raising babies, working and caring for a chronically ill parent. There's always a reason we are placed with a particular person. It could be as simple as YOU are Strong and can make it through anything. Think of our world today; it's challenging everywhere. It's how we choose to show up daily. I would not be the person I am today if I didn't leave my husband. He was my world, but he also taught me after those years of no support, no partnership, attending events alone, etc.… I never needed him; I just wanted to love him, so I left without regret; he became sober, and we love him for that!
This is excellent! I love the way you choose to respond to Addiction, and the way you explain how there were three of you in the marriage. I also appreciate your description of the reply you got from your dignified response. Thank you for shedding light on this complex and confusing issue!
I have been listening to the podcast for almost a month now and love them. I keep hearing on the podcast about a "Secret facebook group" How do I find that group? That his something I am looking for and think it would help me.
Thank you Michelle. I appreciate all your efforts and the efforts of all the other subscribers to be supportive to those of us experiencing loved ones in the vise grip of addiction . Your reference to the “ kind and strong” approach, remaining “dignified “ was especially helpful. I have used this approach as well as a coping strategy with my alcoholic husband. Sometimes there can be a respectful adult discussion, but when addiction in full swing, one can feel the change, and I switch to the detached but present mode too. I’m proud of myself that I don’t participate in the senseless arguing that only adds more pain and confusion. It took quite some time to learn this but it helps me remain calm and realize that this addiction problem is his responsibility. Some people say, “ you don’t have to live this way, divorce the guy”, but that is one’s personal decision and not for others to decide. I appreciate that you understand that as the consequences of such a major decision would fall on the one who makes the decision. They have the right to be sure, before making such a life changing choice. When the argument scenario rears its drunk self, I say something along the lines of….” can see why your frustrated “ …. “ that’s a difficult problem, that’s for sure”…. “ well, arguing sure won’t help, we know that for certain “… we can talk about that….but not now….will check with you tomorrow “. Then I go take a bath or go grocery shopping. I have been greatly encouraged by your suggestion and real life experience. Thank you again😍
Thank you Michelle! Timing was perfect for this (as it seems to be for so many of your writings). I have struggled with this very thing and have also been mocked when I've been polite and didn't "pick up the rope" (as they say ...). Anyway, this is one of my fav sharings of yours and I always look forward to LOA in my Inbox - keep them coming! Thank you again.
My SO I’ll call him D. He has gotten so bad in the addiction he gets crocked & talks about dying. Ugh.
He gets verbally abusive every darn night. I hate nighttime anymore. I do have my space. He has voices. He talks to himself now. Usually about me. How horrible I am...etc. 😏🙄 I listen from up stairs. He wails out loud. He puts me down with the same old crap he spews & I keep my mouth shut until I leave the ‘drama’ then he tells me I’m a snob.(because I don’t engage.) He brings my mom (deceased) into it for extra hurt. I want to hit him over the head with my cast iron pan...a girl can dream right? 🤣
I recorded him a few nights ago. He heard about 30 secs of it & left the room & all he said was...I must have done something to incite him. Not a single word btw. I didn’t want to start ww3. His health is failing. He is retired & won’t go out of the house hardly. It’s like I live alone because I do it all. Every night is a broken record. Same ol’ devil talk. Last Friday, (surprisingly)
D wanted to go to the nail salon with me for a pedi. Then we went to a new place for dinner. No conversation thru dinner except for talk about the meal. Then home & booze booze booze. He gets soused now after two drinks. He’s steeped in alcohol. He can’t eat much anymore. Never hungry until he’s crocked. He feels ill all day. Eats after a few drinks. Obvi his liver is failing. I can’t help him anymore. I know this. I am just living for myself the best I can. He won’t be around long. I’m already done grieving. My faith is strong. I pray the devil won’t be the one to take him. 🙏🏼💖
Thank you x love hearing these... my husbands 2 years on ... he’s in an amazing place, but I still need to hear your reassuring voice . Thank you so much x 💕
I am looking at my 20 year anniversary in March and not sure it will be a victory. My DH took 140 days off last year according to his count, I didn’t notice. But addiction showed back up, maybe, on our family vacation. First one in years. Addiction has been steadily taking over our finances, our relationship and now trying to take away my last bit of compassion.
I understand that taking a vacation from addiction is not a healthy way to live. Always in the background is an apprehension that sobriety is a myth.
I know I have to break free for my own mental health but also for my almost twelve years old daughter who is being shaped by this brute addiction. She and I have turned to writing our feelings about our lives into poems and lyrics. She has such a beautiful voice and a soul that is inspiring. I don’t want addiction to stall her emotional growth.
I would like to share my poem:
The Face of Addiction
Honestly, Addiction, I still smell you all through the night
You thought me you could outsmart
Instead in the morning
you quietly break my heart
You’re rude, you think you’re wise
While next to me you try to hide
All the moments you take away
You lie and shrink into the darkness
As slowly you kill one’s spark
Addiction you have no face
You invade, you steal the happiness away
You pretend all is ok but never will You be welcomed any day
Addiction you prey on the lonely and make them stay that way
You hide in loudness while family stay silent
Untill you take our loved one away
Addiction you are a darkness
Never think you are forgotten
Addiction you have no Face
By ME
I will find the means to escape, I just have to decide when.
I have so much to say but my words have run away, so until another day- thank you for listening.
The Jekyll and Hyde syndrome, they drink so much or use so much you can't predict how they are going to be or react, and so you learn to maneuver around them when the fight starts. I did it for so long that I could tell by the way he swaggered in or keywords he would blurt out so I could prepare responses. Some being grunts or mmhhmmms to try and just minimize. And then he would switch and be so nice and kind, then switch again just yelling and pushing me. At some point, you kind of just live in this world of existing and being grateful for the sober moments. Until I was done, and when I was done, he decided to get help. He's been clean for a little over a year, and I stayed because he did it and has stayed sober, but there is always this mistrust. Did he do it because he wanted to? Did he because I was leaving so it was never really what he wanted and he'll fall back in? And the abuse. Verbal, mental, physical. He's a completely different person now so I give him that. He tries so hard to make it up to me and does everything in his power to make sure I'm happy. And I'm trying, God knows I am but my fake it until I make it fake happy is falling off. I'm numb! I'm angry and depressed and numb and it is the worst feeling! It's really not fair that they get to be sober and pick up and live a life making amends and they don't remember half the things they do. Meanwhile, we have the trauma and therapists and memories, not to mention the time, life, and world they crushed. So then I feel guilty for being mad and hurt. It's a vicious cycle of trying to heal, thinking I probably won't, thinking I have, and realizing I haven't only to try again. And then we fight about that because he feels punished and maybe I am. At what point do I say I give up? I tried, I'm proud he's healed, but I'm not and I'm wasting life. Those active addiction fights, they trickle into when they're in sobriety too because we remember. I think that's the most frustrating part.
Love your advice, as usual. I get a lot out of your advice because you been there. I work with a therapist but it’s different, it’s good, but your advice really helps. I get how they want the argument but I’m still struggling on how to not yell back in frustration at their actions. I know it’s a no win situation to engage when they are drunk but I get so frustrated I tend to lash out. It never solves anything. I was wondering if anyone has any suggestions? I’m so tired of this. 💔
I hear what you're saying as far as being "dignified." I like to take the high road myself.
But there's a fine line between that and losing your sense of self. I am at a point where I am angry with myself for not dealing with it head-on. He is a narcissist, so I guess that's a good enough reason to not speak my mind. It wouldn't matter what I said anyway, so I just learned to not say anything at all. I am a peace maker, by nature and I don't want to fight.
But I am taken advantage of because of it. I now seem to have this complex about not having a voice. Feeling stifled is becoming a theme in my life. So, to survive, I just go on my merry way, do my own thing and try to let things roll off my shoulders. It feels like denial.
But I'm tired of that. After 37 years of allowing his wreckless, disrespectful and selfish behavior, I don't think it was the right way to handle it at all. I should have put my foot down so long ago. I never learned how to establish boundaries. And I'm still struggling with it.
And this I say as being newly divorced for not even a month. And he's STILL ON MY COUCH!! So that's where I'm at today. I felt like venting. I would love any feedback anyone would like to offer.
And thank you for providing this forum as well.
Michelle, love your writing so much! Everything you write, really hits home here- magic, it truly is such magic, when they are healing 💕💔
When my husband relapses, I think of him as Clyde because I don't like that name and I don't like the person he becomes. When I am tempted to open up, I try to tell myself that my husband is asleep and I am sharing space with this person so I try to be polite, non- comittal and distant. That does make it easier.
Also, when I am being lied to or when he contradicts himself seven different ways in as many minutes, I am tempted to call out the BS but then I remind myself that Peace is more important and it won't matter anyway. I can address the lies later.
The dignity phrase is good..that helps especially for those in- between times when they aren't completely gone...but are getting there..or are emerging from the cloud.
This message came right on time! I’ve been working on distancing myself when i notice my SO is under the influence. And wasn’t sure if i was going the right way about it. You’re right about when they are sober they are fun and pleasant to be around but when not it’s just not it. I’ve gotten to the point where if that’s what he wants to do then that’s on him. I’m learning to find myself again and find healthier coping skills when he is drunk or high off coke i usually want to yell (get upset etc etc) and say “i thought you wouldn’t do this anymore” but it’s much more peaceful when i simple say a prayer for him and go on about my day. One day at a time!! Thank you Michelle for “love over addiction” it has helped me more then you’ll ever know!
Good advice.
I divorced a verbally abusive alcoholic at the age of 45 after a 30 year courtship + marriage. He was a cynical, angry drunk who blamed me for literally everything that went wrong in his life. I called it 'verbal diarrhea' as he would bitch incessantly (often to an empty room.)
In the early years I, too tried to take the high road (he wasn't as bad off then) and understand his misery. But as the addiction grew worse I gave up trying. When he refused to get help, I should have helped myself. I only wish I'd given up sooner and saved myself and my children from years of dysfunction. Hindsight is 20/20 and codependency keeps us in destructive relationships.
Michelle, I’m a mighty, talented woman before marrying and after divorcing my high school love of 38 years. Through your program, I regained my self-respect, energy, and love for my brain( it’s a beautiful brain). Staying with a man dying from alcoholism/addiction was EXHAUSTING! But I learned so much about myself throughout the years. It’s an arduous experience balancing my previous life with my current life, EXPECTATING a good life, and working to heal and reframe my thoughts worked best for my recovery. I started my journey hidden, without a voice, very lonely, raising babies, working and caring for a chronically ill parent. There's always a reason we are placed with a particular person. It could be as simple as YOU are Strong and can make it through anything. Think of our world today; it's challenging everywhere. It's how we choose to show up daily. I would not be the person I am today if I didn't leave my husband. He was my world, but he also taught me after those years of no support, no partnership, attending events alone, etc.… I never needed him; I just wanted to love him, so I left without regret; he became sober, and we love him for that!
This is excellent! I love the way you choose to respond to Addiction, and the way you explain how there were three of you in the marriage. I also appreciate your description of the reply you got from your dignified response. Thank you for shedding light on this complex and confusing issue!
I have been listening to the podcast for almost a month now and love them. I keep hearing on the podcast about a "Secret facebook group" How do I find that group? That his something I am looking for and think it would help me.
Thank you Michelle. I appreciate all your efforts and the efforts of all the other subscribers to be supportive to those of us experiencing loved ones in the vise grip of addiction . Your reference to the “ kind and strong” approach, remaining “dignified “ was especially helpful. I have used this approach as well as a coping strategy with my alcoholic husband. Sometimes there can be a respectful adult discussion, but when addiction in full swing, one can feel the change, and I switch to the detached but present mode too. I’m proud of myself that I don’t participate in the senseless arguing that only adds more pain and confusion. It took quite some time to learn this but it helps me remain calm and realize that this addiction problem is his responsibility. Some people say, “ you don’t have to live this way, divorce the guy”, but that is one’s personal decision and not for others to decide. I appreciate that you understand that as the consequences of such a major decision would fall on the one who makes the decision. They have the right to be sure, before making such a life changing choice. When the argument scenario rears its drunk self, I say something along the lines of….” can see why your frustrated “ …. “ that’s a difficult problem, that’s for sure”…. “ well, arguing sure won’t help, we know that for certain “… we can talk about that….but not now….will check with you tomorrow “. Then I go take a bath or go grocery shopping. I have been greatly encouraged by your suggestion and real life experience. Thank you again😍
Thank you Michelle! Timing was perfect for this (as it seems to be for so many of your writings). I have struggled with this very thing and have also been mocked when I've been polite and didn't "pick up the rope" (as they say ...). Anyway, this is one of my fav sharings of yours and I always look forward to LOA in my Inbox - keep them coming! Thank you again.
So many things to u pack from this post.
First of all...thank u again Michelle!
My SO I’ll call him D. He has gotten so bad in the addiction he gets crocked & talks about dying. Ugh.
He gets verbally abusive every darn night. I hate nighttime anymore. I do have my space. He has voices. He talks to himself now. Usually about me. How horrible I am...etc. 😏🙄 I listen from up stairs. He wails out loud. He puts me down with the same old crap he spews & I keep my mouth shut until I leave the ‘drama’ then he tells me I’m a snob.(because I don’t engage.) He brings my mom (deceased) into it for extra hurt. I want to hit him over the head with my cast iron pan...a girl can dream right? 🤣
I recorded him a few nights ago. He heard about 30 secs of it & left the room & all he said was...I must have done something to incite him. Not a single word btw. I didn’t want to start ww3. His health is failing. He is retired & won’t go out of the house hardly. It’s like I live alone because I do it all. Every night is a broken record. Same ol’ devil talk. Last Friday, (surprisingly)
D wanted to go to the nail salon with me for a pedi. Then we went to a new place for dinner. No conversation thru dinner except for talk about the meal. Then home & booze booze booze. He gets soused now after two drinks. He’s steeped in alcohol. He can’t eat much anymore. Never hungry until he’s crocked. He feels ill all day. Eats after a few drinks. Obvi his liver is failing. I can’t help him anymore. I know this. I am just living for myself the best I can. He won’t be around long. I’m already done grieving. My faith is strong. I pray the devil won’t be the one to take him. 🙏🏼💖
Thank you x love hearing these... my husbands 2 years on ... he’s in an amazing place, but I still need to hear your reassuring voice . Thank you so much x 💕
Thank you soooo much for sharing your experiences, strength and hope!! 💜💕
I am looking at my 20 year anniversary in March and not sure it will be a victory. My DH took 140 days off last year according to his count, I didn’t notice. But addiction showed back up, maybe, on our family vacation. First one in years. Addiction has been steadily taking over our finances, our relationship and now trying to take away my last bit of compassion.
I understand that taking a vacation from addiction is not a healthy way to live. Always in the background is an apprehension that sobriety is a myth.
I know I have to break free for my own mental health but also for my almost twelve years old daughter who is being shaped by this brute addiction. She and I have turned to writing our feelings about our lives into poems and lyrics. She has such a beautiful voice and a soul that is inspiring. I don’t want addiction to stall her emotional growth.
I would like to share my poem:
The Face of Addiction
Honestly, Addiction, I still smell you all through the night
You thought me you could outsmart
Instead in the morning
you quietly break my heart
You’re rude, you think you’re wise
While next to me you try to hide
All the moments you take away
You lie and shrink into the darkness
As slowly you kill one’s spark
Addiction you have no face
You invade, you steal the happiness away
You pretend all is ok but never will You be welcomed any day
Addiction you prey on the lonely and make them stay that way
You hide in loudness while family stay silent
Untill you take our loved one away
Addiction you are a darkness
Never think you are forgotten
Addiction you have no Face
By ME
I will find the means to escape, I just have to decide when.
I have so much to say but my words have run away, so until another day- thank you for listening.
The Jekyll and Hyde syndrome, they drink so much or use so much you can't predict how they are going to be or react, and so you learn to maneuver around them when the fight starts. I did it for so long that I could tell by the way he swaggered in or keywords he would blurt out so I could prepare responses. Some being grunts or mmhhmmms to try and just minimize. And then he would switch and be so nice and kind, then switch again just yelling and pushing me. At some point, you kind of just live in this world of existing and being grateful for the sober moments. Until I was done, and when I was done, he decided to get help. He's been clean for a little over a year, and I stayed because he did it and has stayed sober, but there is always this mistrust. Did he do it because he wanted to? Did he because I was leaving so it was never really what he wanted and he'll fall back in? And the abuse. Verbal, mental, physical. He's a completely different person now so I give him that. He tries so hard to make it up to me and does everything in his power to make sure I'm happy. And I'm trying, God knows I am but my fake it until I make it fake happy is falling off. I'm numb! I'm angry and depressed and numb and it is the worst feeling! It's really not fair that they get to be sober and pick up and live a life making amends and they don't remember half the things they do. Meanwhile, we have the trauma and therapists and memories, not to mention the time, life, and world they crushed. So then I feel guilty for being mad and hurt. It's a vicious cycle of trying to heal, thinking I probably won't, thinking I have, and realizing I haven't only to try again. And then we fight about that because he feels punished and maybe I am. At what point do I say I give up? I tried, I'm proud he's healed, but I'm not and I'm wasting life. Those active addiction fights, they trickle into when they're in sobriety too because we remember. I think that's the most frustrating part.
Love your advice, as usual. I get a lot out of your advice because you been there. I work with a therapist but it’s different, it’s good, but your advice really helps. I get how they want the argument but I’m still struggling on how to not yell back in frustration at their actions. I know it’s a no win situation to engage when they are drunk but I get so frustrated I tend to lash out. It never solves anything. I was wondering if anyone has any suggestions? I’m so tired of this. 💔