"I wanted to teach her - she never needs to voluntarily stay in the presence of self-destructive people who are acting unkind."
^^ This hit me hard. It basically sums up the last year or so of my marriage (to someone struggling with alcohol dependency). I do not miss that feeling. No one deserves to be treated that way.
My boyfriend is a drug addict. He will use for a week/week and a half straight, and then be sober for 2 weeks, and back to using and back to being sober. Some days are harder than others. When he is using, he is usually agitated and becomes more defensive. There are some days I match his energy and he wonders why I act that way and doesn’t realize I’m putting out what he does. But other days I know two wrongs don’t make a right and just keep my distance. As I have learned, having any conversations during those times, there’s a good chance he won’t remember or the conversation goes no where. When he is sober, we are GREAT together. My anger won’t help the situation and I’ve learned that sometimes he just needs me to be there for him. Some days I can do that to a certain extent so I can keep myself mentally in a good space.
Staying busy is key. As is staying calm, grounded, detached. At first I would be “huffy” as I went about my chores. Or roll my eyes. It took a lot for me to stop that counterproductive behavior.
My STBXAH has problems communicating his emotions. He’s either critical, raging, or giving the silent treatment. I can usually feel when a rage is coming. It makes me anxious. He’s stopped drinking, which helps, but he still doesn’t know how to voice his feelings in a constructive way. I listen to podcasts that remind me I’m not at fault, and I try to do things that bring me joy, like take my dog for a walk, visit with my grown kids, or call a friend. When I feel better, I don’t feed into the tension.
Hey Lori, I'm sure you know about the dry-drunk personality. Getting sober is half the battle, but they lost so much "organic maturing" for so many years due to their addiction - it's almost like dealing with a child when they get sober. Self-regulation and healthy communication are usually learned skills. Def, not your fault. I love that you visit with your grown kids - some of my kids are in that stage, too, and it's so wonderful.
Yes! “Organic maturing” hasn’t been seen in this household in many years. As of this past week, we legally separated. He may or may not be drinking ( I don’t monitor) but the immaturity reared its ugly face several times towards me.
Does the “dry drunk personality” ever go away? Will he ever begin maturing to current his age of 63? These questions and many more run through my mine.
Like Lori , mine, too, has stopped or refused all outside help. He feels I can be his sponsor/therapist - nope, I can’t be and even if I could I wouldn’t do it. He has no “safety net”.
I continue with my therapist and programs/podcasts/readings(yours were so very helpful-thank you), including this one now to better myself and move forward. I have my “people” in place and use often.
The frustrating thing is that while I’m so proud of him for quitting alcohol, he refuses to get any kind of help. No AA, no therapy, no group program, nothing. He wants to fix it himself. I’m focusing on myself now, and continuing with the divorce.
Mine has been doing that too & he has quit drinking which makes it harder because I’m grateful he’s stopped drinking but his emotional abuse & manipulation are exhausting. It’s like I never know if I am going to get nice or nasty husband. Just so frustrating & I’m so over being mistreated.
Oh yes, I have several in-laws that are overbearing, highly opinionated, controlling, and have no healthy boundaries. When I married my husband, my sister-in-law would be so outright rude and inappropriate. I would literally shake at some of her outbursts. I was oftentimes so stunned, it would take a while for her actions and/or comments to even sink in. For many years, I didn’t have the coping skills to handle her. I would literally ruminate in front of the mirror about telling her off. I was SO angry and hurt, I had to get it out... but I was too intimidated by her, I couldn’t. Her daughter (my niece) was very much like her mom. I began to notice that my niece (who was 3 1/2 years younger than my daughter) would be mean and bully my daughter. I knew I had to put a stop to this immediately and teach my daughter the skills my mother never taught me. I was not going to allow her to go through life letting others walk on her! So, I began to roll play with her. It sounds harsh, I know, but when my daughter told me her cousin blocked her from leaving the room, I actually told her she could punch her cousin in the stomach! I never would have dreamed of telling my child something like that! But, seriously! Her cousin needed to know - YOU CANNOT BULLY ME IN ANY MANNER! I would also practice role playing with words. I pretended to be my niece and would say mean/hurtful/manipulative things to my daughter. Then, we would practice replies that helped her to express herself and apply healthy boundaries. There were several years, where my daughter simply didn’t want to be anywhere near her cousin. My husband and I completely honored that!! And we explained why she felt this way to my sister-in-law. Thankfully, my niece has turned into a wonderful person and we are all very close with her. Her mother and I have always had a love/hate relationship. But, I have changed so much. I no longer stay quiet. I told her she was one of the most over-bearing people I have ever met. I acknowledged I never had the tools to deal with her, so I built up so much resentment. She too has come a long way- much improved- and frankly, I have become so much stronger myself. I now tell her point blank when she oversteps. Just the other day, we were talking about a conversation I had with another family member. She interrupted me and was telling me how I “should have” addressed this person. I said very loudly, “I DO NOT NEED YOU TO TELL ME HOW TO SPEAK WITH ANOTHER PERSON!” It didn’t work the first time, as she kept interrupting me. So, I repeated myself 4-5 times, over and over, until she finally stopped and received my message. I know she will not do this to me again. She has learned to have respect for me because I have demanded it. And my daughter has such healthy boundaries. Some of us were born with milder, more sensitive personalities. And others are out opposites. I often wonder if these people are put on our lives so we may both grow and learn from one another.
I love that you role played with your daughter how to handle a bully. I wish I would have done that with my daughters when they were younger. If you learn how to set boundaries in a loving but firm way, you can become unstoppable in any difficult situation.
Yes! My daughter innately has a “people pleasing” personality which can be dangerous. She absolutely needed to learn boundaries. I always taught her that respect (towards others) must be earned. It didn’t matter whether a person was an “authoritative” person. She was free to not respect them, disagree with them, etc. She should always listen to her own intuitions. We should all know as children/young adults that just because someone is older than them, it does not make them wiser!
Lynn I’m glad you stayed strong and decided to teach your daughter those skills. I’m 29 and my parents never taught me those skills. This is probably because they were the bullies and toxic ones. I’ve been walked all over my whole life basically until recently the last few years I’ve put up boundaries and respect myself enough to stand up for me. My dad was an alcoholic my entire life until the last 8 years, he has been recovering. Although not all behaviors have changed. My mom is extremely codependent, overbearing, and controlling for my whole life as well. Partly, probably her reactions from my dad, but she still acts that way now. I didn’t have the skills to process all of my feelings during childhood. Thankfully I live alone with my boyfriend, so I can keep distance from them and not answer the phone when I don’t feel like engaging with them.
Thanks for commenting. My father was an alcoholic also. And probably a narcissist. My mother was emotionally unavailable. It’s no wonder neither of us had boundaries. We probably just wanted love- no matter what form it was in. Very sad. It’s taken me many years, different therapists, natural modalities, and a bookcase full of self-help books to overcome the damage my parents did. But, I’m a survivor and I’ve worked hard. Life is a journey. It’s constant lessons. Be good to yourself; you deserve to be “whole” and you can be. I highly recommend reading “How To Do The Work”, by Dr. Nicole LePera. Another great one is “Codependant No More” by Melody Beattie.
Thank you, I will have to check those out! I am definitely learning to be kinder to myself and give myself grace. It’s a learning process for sure. But I’m ready to put in the work.
Mine is a binge drinker. He can go a week or two without drinking anything. When he starts, it’s 24/7 unless he’s sleeping. I have to escape or go absolutely bonkers. I’ve taken up gardening which is nice and the work is never ending. It’s nice to be outside.
Mine is the same he'll go weeks without it then out of nowhere he's full on drunk for days and just sleeps most the time. We don't fully live together so I just go back home.
I have worked really hard to find different ways to distance myself from my husband when he’s on one of his binges because he gets extremely mean, defensive, condescending, and verbally abusive towards me. Similar to others who have commented, my husband will randomly binge for several days (up to 7 days). When he is on one of his binges, I have to completely disconnect from him, distance myself from him, and ignore him. If I don’t, I get way too upset and emotional and I let him and his actions take control of me. I have found that staying busy and mentally disconnecting from him has helped me tremendously. I have to basically focus on myself and only myself during these times. I ignore all of his text messages. I ignore his presence when I am home, if we do cross paths. I’m thankful for an amazing career that keeps me really busy and with a good group of coworkers who provide a social outlet for me. I have complete flexibility to go in to the office or work from home, so I will go into work every day during his binges just to get away from my toxic home environment. I will call my friends and meet up with them for happy hour or dinner. I will attend any work-related social events that week if there are any. I will accomplish things around the house, like yard work, projects, painting, etc.. huge stress relief as well.
When my partner has been drinking, I just remember that the person he is that I love isn’t the one that’s there before me. The “under the influence” man is not the version of him that I want any connection with, so I let him alone. I redirect my focus from connection to self-care, and distance myself physically too, if I need to. I’m still not entirely where I want to be yet, but I’m getting there. Shaming him will never declaw addiction, but compassion with firm boundaries may. Who would have thought that me taking care of myself could be so powerful? If he decides to get help for himself, awesome, but either way I’m okay.
In response to Michelle’s phonecall and what she did was correct. She had asked did anyone have anything to share re when one may want to bring you into what I call vortex. With someone who drinks. Is angry at life etc. The other person is not and wants love etc. Love yourself. Don’t blame yourself. Don’t blame anyone. Don’t engage in dead end conversations, that’s what gives the addict power as you feel you may have a chance to be heard. They only hear themselves. If you’re in it can’t cut the chord. As I am but have made a lot of progress with me. Then be civil. Nice. Work. And do things that make you feel good. Do not allow one to drag you into a vortex. That’s what I call it. Horrible place where I would feel so helpless and words can’t describe. But I allowed that. We took months apart. After I didn’t allow it anymore. There is no verbal abuse anymore. But it’s deadened and person still abuses alcohol and along with the unhappiness one can see or anger etc. Minute I feel they vortex pull. I say nope. Work today. Exercise. My cat. My mom. Paint. Read. Friends. Get out. Be nice and proceed with the day God has given to you of your life. Best way I can sum up my position now.
It makes me so sad reading some of the stories and relating to the ways that addiction makes the partner so very lonely in the relationship. I guess I am feeling sorry for the partner/victim in the relationship, and I recogbize it is sad and it is also self inflicted too. No one was holding a gun to my head thank god even though at the time I felt like I didn't have any good choice in leaving. My motivator did threaten to kill himself if I left. I get having to distance from the loved one when they are using and focusing on self care rather than controling behaviors, but it makes me sad that I did that so much in the past. Self care isn't sad and refocusing on the self is helpful in that kind of a relationship. Its just sad it's not a reliable and consistent intimate attachment/relationship. I recognize why I was attracted to that in the first place and continue to work on myself so that I don't go back or re-create that kind of relationship in the future either. It is so unfulfilling and it has aged me like nothing else. What a freaking hard lesson it has been and continues to be. I am still in the process of getting to a place of gratitude for the lesson and the work I suppose.
We do have choices. They are difficult choices, and they have consequences, but we do have choices. We have to remember that. Thank you Anne for reminding me.
I am definitely codependent and empathetic. My oldest son, now 37 got the worst from an entire life with an alcoholic father. I’ve tried endlessly to spare him the abuse- which basically pretended what was happening wasn’t. You know the scene- making the abnormal normal”. It caused passive aggressive behavior in him. He acts entitled. It triggers me to know end and I have no one time blame but myself. My AH is now a year sober but healing really hasn’t begun as he is not in a recovery program. But I’m reading and have been in therapy 3 years. My best advice at this stage of my healing process is to RECOGNIZE when I’m getting triggered. I now know “it’s in my gut”. 2. I try and stop my talking, stop engaging. 3. I do whatever I can to get myself out of guilting myself, shaming myself. It can take days unfortunately
I have not mastered it. But I know engaging when I’m triggered does no one any good- actually will destroy relationship worse.
«Not necessarily abusive language but an abusive tone of voice.
Are you familiar with that tone? The words are fine-ish, but the manner is sharp and volatile.»
Oh, do I recocnize this? Most definately. And it is really draining to be around. It has taken years of hard work, trying and failing, for me to not absorb the others feelings. For most of my life I felt I had done something wrong. Then one day I realized that I hadn’t done anything, it wasn’t my fault! And I started working.
Now I start with observing. Is it mine or is it theirs? What am I feeling? How is this affecting me? Most of the time I can recognize that this is pulling me down. Do I want that? The answer is never «yes».
I also observe how it is affecting my children. And I can help them get out of the persons grip and downpulling.
It used to feel very exhausting to pull us all out of the pit, but now it feels more easy. I like feeling good. I can’t say that the others mood doesn’t bother me. I mean, on a deep level this is something I don’t want to have around in my life. But it doesn’t affect me much anymore.
Distance is key. The yearning for connection sits deep, but protecting myself and the kids from the toxic space is life saving. Sanitizing. Brings me sanity.
I laugh with them. I put on some music and dance. We go outside and have fun. We draw, paint, play games. I also talk with them and put into words how the other was behaving. I don’t make it into a big deal, but ask them how they felt and kind of state the facts. Yeah, he was moldy today. Or irritated. It might feel like it, but you didn’t do anything wrong.
Sometimes he crosses a line, and I let them know what’s not ok to do.
The balance between policing and beeing clear on what I expect has been a bumpy road.
My challenge now is to voice my boundaries in the situation. If he is in a moldy mood, I know that bringing it up might just put fuel to the flame. Do I want that for me and the kids? I want to let them know we always can voice our feelings and needs. But is it worth it if confronting just makes the grip tighter?
I think you are right, Michelle, that talking in this situation doesn’t do any good. I still feel I need to work on beeing more clear on what feels ok and not for me. And doing it with dignity and politeness.
I was having a discussion with my daughter one night, i was visiting at her and her husbands house, we have a great relationship, and we were on opposite ends of a subject at the time. As a mom we always want to help and sometimes we just need to listen but I wasn't picking up on that at the time. So the conversation got a little heated and i realized i needed to just walk away and get into my own space, it was late so i excused myself and went to bed. Well a few minutes went by and my daughter walks in and tearfully apologizes! She recognized in that moment how much I had learned, how much i had grown, she was so proud of me! She felt so bad because she was just having a bad moment and that's OK. We hugged and laughed and moved on. I have a strong daughter and she wants me to be a strong mom, i get stronger every day.
I have been listening to the Love over Addiction podcast. I love all of the information and would love to look at old blog post or information about the Love Over programs.
My son was calling me multiple times a day. Not necessarily always drunk but to the point where I was his only point of contact with the outside world and it became draining to me. Often times he would call and have nothing to say and took on the Eeyore persona....woe is me attitude. I finally told him I loved him but needed some space especially from the middle of night calls which I had put a boundary in place for and turned off my phone for but waking up first thing in the morning and seeing that on my phone became very stressful. I just hit a month break from talking and texting him and it appears he has branded out and figured out other things/people to occupy his time.
"I wanted to teach her - she never needs to voluntarily stay in the presence of self-destructive people who are acting unkind."
^^ This hit me hard. It basically sums up the last year or so of my marriage (to someone struggling with alcohol dependency). I do not miss that feeling. No one deserves to be treated that way.
My boyfriend is a drug addict. He will use for a week/week and a half straight, and then be sober for 2 weeks, and back to using and back to being sober. Some days are harder than others. When he is using, he is usually agitated and becomes more defensive. There are some days I match his energy and he wonders why I act that way and doesn’t realize I’m putting out what he does. But other days I know two wrongs don’t make a right and just keep my distance. As I have learned, having any conversations during those times, there’s a good chance he won’t remember or the conversation goes no where. When he is sober, we are GREAT together. My anger won’t help the situation and I’ve learned that sometimes he just needs me to be there for him. Some days I can do that to a certain extent so I can keep myself mentally in a good space.
Staying busy is key. As is staying calm, grounded, detached. At first I would be “huffy” as I went about my chores. Or roll my eyes. It took a lot for me to stop that counterproductive behavior.
Agreed. I just wrote a post relating to that.
My STBXAH has problems communicating his emotions. He’s either critical, raging, or giving the silent treatment. I can usually feel when a rage is coming. It makes me anxious. He’s stopped drinking, which helps, but he still doesn’t know how to voice his feelings in a constructive way. I listen to podcasts that remind me I’m not at fault, and I try to do things that bring me joy, like take my dog for a walk, visit with my grown kids, or call a friend. When I feel better, I don’t feed into the tension.
Hey Lori, I'm sure you know about the dry-drunk personality. Getting sober is half the battle, but they lost so much "organic maturing" for so many years due to their addiction - it's almost like dealing with a child when they get sober. Self-regulation and healthy communication are usually learned skills. Def, not your fault. I love that you visit with your grown kids - some of my kids are in that stage, too, and it's so wonderful.
Yes! “Organic maturing” hasn’t been seen in this household in many years. As of this past week, we legally separated. He may or may not be drinking ( I don’t monitor) but the immaturity reared its ugly face several times towards me.
Does the “dry drunk personality” ever go away? Will he ever begin maturing to current his age of 63? These questions and many more run through my mine.
Like Lori , mine, too, has stopped or refused all outside help. He feels I can be his sponsor/therapist - nope, I can’t be and even if I could I wouldn’t do it. He has no “safety net”.
I continue with my therapist and programs/podcasts/readings(yours were so very helpful-thank you), including this one now to better myself and move forward. I have my “people” in place and use often.
The frustrating thing is that while I’m so proud of him for quitting alcohol, he refuses to get any kind of help. No AA, no therapy, no group program, nothing. He wants to fix it himself. I’m focusing on myself now, and continuing with the divorce.
My husband is the same - he wants to do it all himself and won’t reach out to any avenue for help. Stubborn runs deeps in him.
Mine has been doing that too & he has quit drinking which makes it harder because I’m grateful he’s stopped drinking but his emotional abuse & manipulation are exhausting. It’s like I never know if I am going to get nice or nasty husband. Just so frustrating & I’m so over being mistreated.
I too remember the walking on egg shells never knowing what his mood was going to be.
@Michelle - - - AMEN !!!
Oh yes, I have several in-laws that are overbearing, highly opinionated, controlling, and have no healthy boundaries. When I married my husband, my sister-in-law would be so outright rude and inappropriate. I would literally shake at some of her outbursts. I was oftentimes so stunned, it would take a while for her actions and/or comments to even sink in. For many years, I didn’t have the coping skills to handle her. I would literally ruminate in front of the mirror about telling her off. I was SO angry and hurt, I had to get it out... but I was too intimidated by her, I couldn’t. Her daughter (my niece) was very much like her mom. I began to notice that my niece (who was 3 1/2 years younger than my daughter) would be mean and bully my daughter. I knew I had to put a stop to this immediately and teach my daughter the skills my mother never taught me. I was not going to allow her to go through life letting others walk on her! So, I began to roll play with her. It sounds harsh, I know, but when my daughter told me her cousin blocked her from leaving the room, I actually told her she could punch her cousin in the stomach! I never would have dreamed of telling my child something like that! But, seriously! Her cousin needed to know - YOU CANNOT BULLY ME IN ANY MANNER! I would also practice role playing with words. I pretended to be my niece and would say mean/hurtful/manipulative things to my daughter. Then, we would practice replies that helped her to express herself and apply healthy boundaries. There were several years, where my daughter simply didn’t want to be anywhere near her cousin. My husband and I completely honored that!! And we explained why she felt this way to my sister-in-law. Thankfully, my niece has turned into a wonderful person and we are all very close with her. Her mother and I have always had a love/hate relationship. But, I have changed so much. I no longer stay quiet. I told her she was one of the most over-bearing people I have ever met. I acknowledged I never had the tools to deal with her, so I built up so much resentment. She too has come a long way- much improved- and frankly, I have become so much stronger myself. I now tell her point blank when she oversteps. Just the other day, we were talking about a conversation I had with another family member. She interrupted me and was telling me how I “should have” addressed this person. I said very loudly, “I DO NOT NEED YOU TO TELL ME HOW TO SPEAK WITH ANOTHER PERSON!” It didn’t work the first time, as she kept interrupting me. So, I repeated myself 4-5 times, over and over, until she finally stopped and received my message. I know she will not do this to me again. She has learned to have respect for me because I have demanded it. And my daughter has such healthy boundaries. Some of us were born with milder, more sensitive personalities. And others are out opposites. I often wonder if these people are put on our lives so we may both grow and learn from one another.
I love that you role played with your daughter how to handle a bully. I wish I would have done that with my daughters when they were younger. If you learn how to set boundaries in a loving but firm way, you can become unstoppable in any difficult situation.
Yes! My daughter innately has a “people pleasing” personality which can be dangerous. She absolutely needed to learn boundaries. I always taught her that respect (towards others) must be earned. It didn’t matter whether a person was an “authoritative” person. She was free to not respect them, disagree with them, etc. She should always listen to her own intuitions. We should all know as children/young adults that just because someone is older than them, it does not make them wiser!
Lynn I’m glad you stayed strong and decided to teach your daughter those skills. I’m 29 and my parents never taught me those skills. This is probably because they were the bullies and toxic ones. I’ve been walked all over my whole life basically until recently the last few years I’ve put up boundaries and respect myself enough to stand up for me. My dad was an alcoholic my entire life until the last 8 years, he has been recovering. Although not all behaviors have changed. My mom is extremely codependent, overbearing, and controlling for my whole life as well. Partly, probably her reactions from my dad, but she still acts that way now. I didn’t have the skills to process all of my feelings during childhood. Thankfully I live alone with my boyfriend, so I can keep distance from them and not answer the phone when I don’t feel like engaging with them.
Ashley,
Thanks for commenting. My father was an alcoholic also. And probably a narcissist. My mother was emotionally unavailable. It’s no wonder neither of us had boundaries. We probably just wanted love- no matter what form it was in. Very sad. It’s taken me many years, different therapists, natural modalities, and a bookcase full of self-help books to overcome the damage my parents did. But, I’m a survivor and I’ve worked hard. Life is a journey. It’s constant lessons. Be good to yourself; you deserve to be “whole” and you can be. I highly recommend reading “How To Do The Work”, by Dr. Nicole LePera. Another great one is “Codependant No More” by Melody Beattie.
Thank you, I will have to check those out! I am definitely learning to be kinder to myself and give myself grace. It’s a learning process for sure. But I’m ready to put in the work.
Haha! Yes, me too! Made me smile knowing it was helping BOTH of us at the same time!
Mine is a binge drinker. He can go a week or two without drinking anything. When he starts, it’s 24/7 unless he’s sleeping. I have to escape or go absolutely bonkers. I’ve taken up gardening which is nice and the work is never ending. It’s nice to be outside.
Gardening is a great outlet!
Mine is the same he'll go weeks without it then out of nowhere he's full on drunk for days and just sleeps most the time. We don't fully live together so I just go back home.
Oh, it’s good you can do that!
I have worked really hard to find different ways to distance myself from my husband when he’s on one of his binges because he gets extremely mean, defensive, condescending, and verbally abusive towards me. Similar to others who have commented, my husband will randomly binge for several days (up to 7 days). When he is on one of his binges, I have to completely disconnect from him, distance myself from him, and ignore him. If I don’t, I get way too upset and emotional and I let him and his actions take control of me. I have found that staying busy and mentally disconnecting from him has helped me tremendously. I have to basically focus on myself and only myself during these times. I ignore all of his text messages. I ignore his presence when I am home, if we do cross paths. I’m thankful for an amazing career that keeps me really busy and with a good group of coworkers who provide a social outlet for me. I have complete flexibility to go in to the office or work from home, so I will go into work every day during his binges just to get away from my toxic home environment. I will call my friends and meet up with them for happy hour or dinner. I will attend any work-related social events that week if there are any. I will accomplish things around the house, like yard work, projects, painting, etc.. huge stress relief as well.
When my partner has been drinking, I just remember that the person he is that I love isn’t the one that’s there before me. The “under the influence” man is not the version of him that I want any connection with, so I let him alone. I redirect my focus from connection to self-care, and distance myself physically too, if I need to. I’m still not entirely where I want to be yet, but I’m getting there. Shaming him will never declaw addiction, but compassion with firm boundaries may. Who would have thought that me taking care of myself could be so powerful? If he decides to get help for himself, awesome, but either way I’m okay.
In response to Michelle’s phonecall and what she did was correct. She had asked did anyone have anything to share re when one may want to bring you into what I call vortex. With someone who drinks. Is angry at life etc. The other person is not and wants love etc. Love yourself. Don’t blame yourself. Don’t blame anyone. Don’t engage in dead end conversations, that’s what gives the addict power as you feel you may have a chance to be heard. They only hear themselves. If you’re in it can’t cut the chord. As I am but have made a lot of progress with me. Then be civil. Nice. Work. And do things that make you feel good. Do not allow one to drag you into a vortex. That’s what I call it. Horrible place where I would feel so helpless and words can’t describe. But I allowed that. We took months apart. After I didn’t allow it anymore. There is no verbal abuse anymore. But it’s deadened and person still abuses alcohol and along with the unhappiness one can see or anger etc. Minute I feel they vortex pull. I say nope. Work today. Exercise. My cat. My mom. Paint. Read. Friends. Get out. Be nice and proceed with the day God has given to you of your life. Best way I can sum up my position now.
It makes me so sad reading some of the stories and relating to the ways that addiction makes the partner so very lonely in the relationship. I guess I am feeling sorry for the partner/victim in the relationship, and I recogbize it is sad and it is also self inflicted too. No one was holding a gun to my head thank god even though at the time I felt like I didn't have any good choice in leaving. My motivator did threaten to kill himself if I left. I get having to distance from the loved one when they are using and focusing on self care rather than controling behaviors, but it makes me sad that I did that so much in the past. Self care isn't sad and refocusing on the self is helpful in that kind of a relationship. Its just sad it's not a reliable and consistent intimate attachment/relationship. I recognize why I was attracted to that in the first place and continue to work on myself so that I don't go back or re-create that kind of relationship in the future either. It is so unfulfilling and it has aged me like nothing else. What a freaking hard lesson it has been and continues to be. I am still in the process of getting to a place of gratitude for the lesson and the work I suppose.
We do have choices. They are difficult choices, and they have consequences, but we do have choices. We have to remember that. Thank you Anne for reminding me.
I am definitely codependent and empathetic. My oldest son, now 37 got the worst from an entire life with an alcoholic father. I’ve tried endlessly to spare him the abuse- which basically pretended what was happening wasn’t. You know the scene- making the abnormal normal”. It caused passive aggressive behavior in him. He acts entitled. It triggers me to know end and I have no one time blame but myself. My AH is now a year sober but healing really hasn’t begun as he is not in a recovery program. But I’m reading and have been in therapy 3 years. My best advice at this stage of my healing process is to RECOGNIZE when I’m getting triggered. I now know “it’s in my gut”. 2. I try and stop my talking, stop engaging. 3. I do whatever I can to get myself out of guilting myself, shaming myself. It can take days unfortunately
I have not mastered it. But I know engaging when I’m triggered does no one any good- actually will destroy relationship worse.
So- RECOGNIZE your triggers first.
«Not necessarily abusive language but an abusive tone of voice.
Are you familiar with that tone? The words are fine-ish, but the manner is sharp and volatile.»
Oh, do I recocnize this? Most definately. And it is really draining to be around. It has taken years of hard work, trying and failing, for me to not absorb the others feelings. For most of my life I felt I had done something wrong. Then one day I realized that I hadn’t done anything, it wasn’t my fault! And I started working.
Now I start with observing. Is it mine or is it theirs? What am I feeling? How is this affecting me? Most of the time I can recognize that this is pulling me down. Do I want that? The answer is never «yes».
I also observe how it is affecting my children. And I can help them get out of the persons grip and downpulling.
It used to feel very exhausting to pull us all out of the pit, but now it feels more easy. I like feeling good. I can’t say that the others mood doesn’t bother me. I mean, on a deep level this is something I don’t want to have around in my life. But it doesn’t affect me much anymore.
Distance is key. The yearning for connection sits deep, but protecting myself and the kids from the toxic space is life saving. Sanitizing. Brings me sanity.
I laugh with them. I put on some music and dance. We go outside and have fun. We draw, paint, play games. I also talk with them and put into words how the other was behaving. I don’t make it into a big deal, but ask them how they felt and kind of state the facts. Yeah, he was moldy today. Or irritated. It might feel like it, but you didn’t do anything wrong.
Sometimes he crosses a line, and I let them know what’s not ok to do.
The balance between policing and beeing clear on what I expect has been a bumpy road.
My challenge now is to voice my boundaries in the situation. If he is in a moldy mood, I know that bringing it up might just put fuel to the flame. Do I want that for me and the kids? I want to let them know we always can voice our feelings and needs. But is it worth it if confronting just makes the grip tighter?
I think you are right, Michelle, that talking in this situation doesn’t do any good. I still feel I need to work on beeing more clear on what feels ok and not for me. And doing it with dignity and politeness.
I was having a discussion with my daughter one night, i was visiting at her and her husbands house, we have a great relationship, and we were on opposite ends of a subject at the time. As a mom we always want to help and sometimes we just need to listen but I wasn't picking up on that at the time. So the conversation got a little heated and i realized i needed to just walk away and get into my own space, it was late so i excused myself and went to bed. Well a few minutes went by and my daughter walks in and tearfully apologizes! She recognized in that moment how much I had learned, how much i had grown, she was so proud of me! She felt so bad because she was just having a bad moment and that's OK. We hugged and laughed and moved on. I have a strong daughter and she wants me to be a strong mom, i get stronger every day.
I have been listening to the Love over Addiction podcast. I love all of the information and would love to look at old blog post or information about the Love Over programs.
My son was calling me multiple times a day. Not necessarily always drunk but to the point where I was his only point of contact with the outside world and it became draining to me. Often times he would call and have nothing to say and took on the Eeyore persona....woe is me attitude. I finally told him I loved him but needed some space especially from the middle of night calls which I had put a boundary in place for and turned off my phone for but waking up first thing in the morning and seeing that on my phone became very stressful. I just hit a month break from talking and texting him and it appears he has branded out and figured out other things/people to occupy his time.