Addiction thrives on secrets. Today, you'll learn three of the biggest secrets addiction does not want you to know - because knowing them - means we get to stop falling for the lies of this disease.
I’m a Love Over Addiction alumna forever grateful for and living out what I learned in that program. Husband still drinks but my life is going well. I enjoy his dry days and hold my drinking related boundaries on his wet days, but overall I no longer look to husband’s state of being to dictate how I will feel. 😀 Thank you, Michelle.
I love this! How have you got to this point of what sounds like bliss?! To not have your life and mood/emotions/well-being controlled by their addiction 🙏
Through lots and lots of self-study and work, which began with Codependent No More, then Michelle’s former program Love Over Addiction, and AlAnon. I still feel angry when he drinks, but I’m able to release him to do what he’s going to do and take care of me.
I am Rachel...my husband of 11 years(today) and I just separated less than a week ago. We have 2 sons, ages 5 and 8. We are currently taking turns staying at the house with the boys, making a schedule with the kids. I have been putting in the work while he has not. I got pushed to it being enough last week after finding something in his work bag and him getting hammered again, plus after being told multiple times drunk and sober, “I’m done, leave me, divorce, etc”. So I made the steps. We’re going to therapy together next week where I plan to ask and bring up infidelity. I feel sick all the time and my guilt has me torn in half. Your episodes of your podcast has helped me tremendously lately. I have to keep thinking, this is for my family and my boys.
One thing I learned over the years and years of dealing with an alcoholic husband is - therapy can’t work while they are actively using.
And I wish I had stood stronger to just do all of it for myself - to get myself strong enough to leave and really work on myself and why I sacrificed so much to make something work that isn’t working.💕 hugs
Hi Rachel, this all sounds really tough I’m sorry. You’re right though, it’s for your boys and you should follow your intuition and not doubt yourself. Luckily, infidelity isn’t something I worry about in this relationship but I think that really would tip me over the edge. I feel this is unforgivable for me.
Hoping therapy goes as well as it can and you get your answers x
Hi everyone, I’m hoping this is the right place to post but going off Michelle’s question it’s probably a good place to start. I’ve been in an on/off relationship (more on than off) with a man I believe to be my soulmate for 6 years. The problem, I adore him, and absolutely detest HIM, the other side of him, the addiction. That’s how I can best describe a relationship with an addict - there’s two of them in there, and I’m desperately holding on for the one I love. When he is around, I can feel blissfully happy and we have a great relationship full of love and happiness with our two boys aged 4, and 2 weeks!
But then there’s HIM. I dread HIM being around and feel a lot of anger and resentment towards him for what he has done to our relationship and the trauma he has caused over the years. It’s so strange because although we know they are the same person, they are worlds apart.
We’ve gotten over some pretty big stuff, and lived to tell the tail stronger than ever. But lately, I’ve seen a lot of HIM, and we are struggling, my loved one is struggling. One of our biggest arguments at the moment is around money, because HE spends an insane amount of money on non-prescription pain medication, and I’m worried it’s going to get us into a lot of bother. Does anyone have tips on how to handle finances if you choose to stay??? I have access to the money and when not on maternity I earn more than him and most things are in my name so I know I’m very lucky in that way, to not be trapped with no way out like so many of you.
The other thing I’m working on is trying to not control the addiction, let go and focus on myself but it’s so so hard! We both have a long way to go I think.
Sorry for the long post and thanks for reading, any and all advice greatly appreciated!!!!
It is just so strange, the predictability of alcoholic behavior. And yet I (and others I'm hearing) somehow convince myself that my situation is different so I don't have to face the truth that he is no different from any other HIM. (Thanks, Amy. That is how I feel too, like he is 2 people.)
Yes, it is so refreshing to hear others talk about him being two different people. When he drinks and says his terrible things, he doesn't seem to remember them in the morning. But then after that he will go for several days and not drink, (like he knows something was amis) and everything is wonderful. My husband is almost ready to retire, and I foolishly hope that when the stress of his job is gone, that he will not drink. He seems to drink to escape... but I probably am not correct.
I hope that is true in your case. I don't ever want to diminish hope for anyone! But I would encourage hanging your hat on rational thought and evidence. I have been pretty bad at this at different times along the journey--and every time time I have "hoped" without reason, I have suffered the same disappointment over and over. So much easier said than done. The lesson has taken YEARS for me to learn and longer still for me to let go of anything that lets his behaviors and choices control my happiness. Still not there yet. I just know that I have to do it, I have to start putting the eggs in MY basket! My husband started for various reasons...continued for others..and continues today for others. He'll always have these "reasons," but now he IS the disease. It is driving his brain on a level he can't even see. The only end will be his acceptance that he needs help, that he is an alcoholic, and that he can never drink again. (Moderation Management?? Yeah, right.). They have NO CONTROL over alcohol after the first sip; their only control is commitment to abstinence.
I have rented a place and am moving out this weekend. I have left for a few nights before, but at a friend's house or a hotel. He is struggling so much with all of this, alongside his mother's death this month and his serious alcohol-related health problems. But I can't help him. Not until he decides to stay sober. It worries me to leave when things are really hard for him right now. I know that I have to, for him and for me.
Whatever the outcome of your family's struggle, I wish you strength to get through it and hope for your own future.
I'm so sorry to hear of your family's crisis now. Thank you that through it, you chose to encourage me. Bless you as you navigate this next step. It is nice to know we have a community to walk with. Stay strong.
Hi. I’m Sandra. I just subscribed (I had followed Michelle in LOA not too long before she closed it). I don’t tend to do too much talking. For some reason I find it exhausting. I do most of my living inside my head. I’m not an introvert or an extrovert (just learned the term “ambivert”, which seems to fit), I just prefer to listen than talk. Maybe this forum will develop the talking (typing? …verbal expression) skill more.
I’m reading everything Michelle writes and all of the comments and gleaning all the wisdom. What a gift to have this blessed place in the midst of the insanity.
I felt the need to comment here, because Amy’s comments about 2 different people - her beloved husband and then HIM - resonates so much with me, and I’m sure with many (all?) of us. I had come to call my husband Dr Jekyll and Mr Hyde. I ADORE Dr Jekyll. And vacillate between pitying and loathing Mr Hyde, depending on my mood.
I have just put my foot down and told Dr Jekyll that if he drinks again (my house in my name), that he can pack up what he can carry and he’s out. The rest of his belongings will be in bags in the garage for a yet undetermined length of time. That he is to “do you” and I’m “do(ing) me” and if he can stay sober for a month, we can revisit whether or not he can work on rebuilding my trust because he’s decimated it at this point.
Now, I’m in a position of power because I have all the resources and he came into this relationship with none, following 35+ years of alcoholism/DUIs/prison. I’ve learned more about this disease than I ever wanted to. I’m also a very strong person (read: stubborn when I want to be) and I’ve supported myself after a failed 22 year prior marriage (he wasn’t an alcoholic. Just a narcissist.). I know many of you aren’t in that position and I know how blessed I am to be. My AH has no financial resources and as an empath (RN by career, go figure lol), my tendency is to have compassion on him and his suffering. But I don’t have the physical or emotional reserve for his nonsense. He knows he’s an alcoholic. I truly believe he hates the sequelae of his drinking. But clearly he wants the alcohol more than anything else or he would have achieved long term sobriety by now. He has had every tool at his disposal to do so. He’ll do the work for awhile and then seemingly out of the blue, whether the rest of his life is going well or not, he’s back to pickling his brain. I’ve worked very hard for the modest home I have and I fear he could destroy it in one of his blackout states (he’s left food cooking on the stove).
I’m off the roller coaster and depending on the HS and my closest friends to keep me accountable to stay off the coaster! I’m not so young anymore and roller coasters rattle my brain too much now, anyway! Lol
Whew! I need a nap now! Haha
Im really grateful to be here and I love all of you, sister tribe! You’re all in my prayers. I’d love to be in yours. *hugs*
I love that LOA helped me understand these secrets. As a successful business person and general problem solver, it was very hard for me to let go of my husband’s alcoholism and to stop trying to fix it. I won’t lie and paint a sunny picture of us - I’m very intentionally detached from him now as I focus on staying in my lane. I don’t react to what time he comes home or in what state, and I no longer count the beer cans from the night before. Sometimes it feels heartless and bitter, but I have to remind myself of the lies and how this disease sucks you in without you even knowing it. Cunning truly is the perfect word.
Me, too. But I haven't been successful in maintaining my boundaries in difficult times: his mom died, his dad has early stage dementia, he's sick (again) and may end up in hospital (again). I find myself suspending the "rules" at these times and not resetting them until he has an all-out 3+day binge and does NOTHING he is supposed to do. I lose it, redraw lines, and stay in my lane... until the next time.
Don’t beat yourself up about this - you’re an empath and clearly care deeply. So much so you sacrifice your own well-being for his which I’m sure we all do x
Sadly, I am. It took YEARS for me to understand and really have those learnings sink in. I recall once during LOA times, being scolded for posting about something my AH did because I was focused on him and not me. It wasn’t until later that I realized how destructive that was. I know we all feel the need to vent when they do something stupid or hurtful, but maybe that just feeds the monster.
Judy, I feel the same way.. I disconnected to protect myself and there is absolutely NO chance of him getting any sex because I just resent him most days and want to vomit at the thought of it. I can’t remember the last time we were intimate. Every time I get close to having those feelings again, he messes up and starts drinking or binges for a week.
Hi, I'm a previous LoA learner and so glad Michelle that you haven't gone away entirely. I started, then abandoned, the program because frankly it was too hard facing myself at the time. 6 years into a relationship with a heavy alcoholic who used his depression and anxiety labels to justify bad behavior and abuse of alcohol, emotional abuse of most around him, including my kids and especially daughter, I changed the locks on the doors one day after he threatened me after I pushed back when he started verbally abusing her again. Got a restraining order shortly after. Went back to him secretly in his new location, got tired of his self-pity and blame and trying to guilt me into helping him financially (I did. to great expense.) Finally I cut it off. My pattern is to put up with a lot then cut the cord abruptly. I'm grateful for the last part.
Fast forward 3 years and I married a wonderful man who I thought drank too regularly but was otherwise sweet, caring, thoughtful, dependable, fun, responsible... you get it. Then, after we came home from our wedding, he had 4 days of nightly episodes of not functioning. I thought he was anxious about his new role at work and a catastrophic car repair cost, and that he was drinking too much, so I told him. On the 4th night, I told him the next time I saw him like this I'd call the paramedics and let them gaslight me if necessary. He then confessed to an oxy addiction started 15 years ago after a surgery, day drinking, hoarding/hiding, financial issues I didn't know about, etc.
He decided to use FMLA and go to detox/rehab. I have to say the detox/rehab experience was very disappointing from the perspective of arming with actual tools to do the work. More like a high-cost daycare for adult children (they are, and they aren't) that teaches not a lot, except that you need them.
I've decided to wait and try to process my sense of betrayal and am in a "wait and see" pattern.
He's been sober 2 months, taking meds to stay sober, changing his personality a bit to much less vibrant. He slipped on drinking while at a golf event for work, came home slurring, and the next day apologized for it. After he tried pretending and asserting it was no big deal. I said what he thought about it was less important to me than the insult of being gaslit about what I saw, observed, and the risks that implied. I was just numb and said I can't control it, but I can control myself and that there was no point for me in being in a relationship where I'm the loyal caretaker for someone who gaslights me and denies the facts about actions and effects. I said I have two almost grown kids, what does he think I'm signing up for? I'm evaluating that.
He apologized, etc. I can confidently say I'm less afraid than ever to lose him. It will be sad. I'll have to face my "failure" to recognize signs and trust too much.
I'm focusing on new work to ensure I am financially better off being solo, in case...
I know he loves me, I know he doesn't want a problem, I know he knows the oxy has really damaged him (oh, and Ambien - want to sue that doc), but he thinks that 7 years of heavy drinking isn't really a problem because it wasn't a problem before. It's the selective denial that gives me pause.
Anyway, that's my story. Thank you for listening. I'm going to give myself an hour a week here to ground in this reality while I focus on myself in the other hours. I've been really stuck in the "not me, not yet" zone and it is RIDICULOUS! My whole adult life has been pleasing others and underestimating myself, making myself smaller to "support" and protect my partners' ambitions (husband 1 of 20 years, no addiction to substances, just himself and conveying I should be more, give more, etc) and to protect their recovery (the last 2 relationships).
I ask, "Who is protecting our recovery?" I know it is up to us.
Much love and empathy to you all. I'm really grateful for this space again. Thank you Michelle and everyone for baring your souls.
I wanted to write notes in the margins! Yes, me too, wtf, OMG, yes yes yes. I shouldn't be surprised at all any more; but I continue to be flabbergasted at both the conistency of themes, feelings, plans, resentment.... But also by how very much addicts are all exactly the same in the most crucial ways. Since it's so predictable, why are treatment facilities, researchers, doctors able to build better treatments based on THIS ISNOT WORKING FOR EVERYBODY! I know it's my husband who is failing to engage; but since so many men have this in common, shouldn't someone by trying new practices to help them?? Or refund the money, ha ha. I wish I had the thousands and thousands of dollars spent on: medical bills (CCU three times) and paying max put-off-pocket for the past 5 years; residential, PH, IOP, therapy programs; vodka (oh yes, the stash); lost billable hours (that's how he gets paid at his job), money he "invests" while day- trading drunk; and all the people I have to to do things around the house that he could easily do, if... I'd buy myself a nice little house and MOVE!
Hi all - What would I have done without getting myself help? I started therapy and it was suggested to me to check out LOA. That was 2 years ago and I'm still here. I never thought that this is what I would be dealing with in my life but here I am. My husband has been in addiction for at least 10 years. Our lives used to be all about microbrews and checking out new breweries where ever we were. He brewed his own beer and won many accolades in doing so. He has an incredible palate and could tell you all about the ingredients, etc. Then he started having issues with work and his solution was to drink but it wasn't beer, it was hard alcohol. We hardly ever had hard alcohol! One day I knew he wasn't right and I found a locked draw in the garage. I pried that sucker open and found about 2 dozen empty vodka bottles!!! It all spiraled from there!! Fast forward...after many talks and finding more empties, pushing him to go to an IOP, more empties, the lying, screaming and pleading, moving to separate rooms in the house, ER for detox with a 3 night stay, finding him inebriated on the floor of the garage, calling his brother because I can't do this anymore, going to a 4 week in-patient rehab, more relapses... It's exhausting! I'm exhausted! and then they wonder why it's so hard to love them anymore...because I'm exhausted! He is currently sober. This time he is about 4 months into it. I can tell he is getting frustrated because he doesn't know how to enjoy life. He has no hobbies, no friends. He goes to work and watches TV. He has been going to therapy but doesn't know what he is supposed to be getting out of it. It's a struggle for him to 'talk'. He wants someone to give him the answer of how to fix his problem. I feel like the struggle with the depression and anxiety are getting the best of him and that he will break his sobriety sooner rather than later. I can't fix him. I have to stay in my lane and take care of me. I haven't worked for the last 5 years and just recently started a new job. I think that has thrown him for a loop. It is my way of setting a boundary that says I am not available to you whenever. It's a vicious cycle. I have contemplated many times of leaving him but then why should I have to leave? Then he gets sober and things seems to iron out a bit. And then the other shoe drops and we go through this all over again. He always apologizes the next day that he screwed up. I finally told him that I no longer wanted to hear his apologies because they meant nothing to me. I finally told him that I can't help him. It makes it really tough to continue with a relationship. He is not the man I married. We have been married for 35 years and it's so hard to walk away but then again, is it? No kids, 2 pets and a lifetime of memories. I used to be good about doing a photo book to summarize each year. I have not done one for 5 years now because they aren't very happy memories of us. They would be more about the things that I have done without him. So sad. He is really struggling with how to be happy with life. I am not sure what to tell him but I know he has to figure it out. Like with the addiction, he has to figure it out. I have become a different person because I have had to figure out how to love life on my own. I have had to become independent. He doesn't understand why I am not into 'us'. I have to be very mindful of how I word things to him. I know he is sick but I get so tired of having to tip-toe around his feelings because I am just over it sometimes. I want to tell him he just needs to man up and figure it out because that is what I have been doing for years now. It is so very frustrating!
Has anyone had to change the way they deal with finances? I’m quite lucky in that our home, cars etc are in my name. I bought it when we were separated so it’s nice to have that security. We do share finances though and his spending is so out of control that it’s getting us into a bad place and I’m very anxious about it. I’m trying to separate this too so we have a joint account for bills etc but then we each manage our own money. At the moment, we argue more about money and his irresponsible spending than we do about his codeine use. I’m not prepared to sacrifice nice things in life and/or struggle financially for his addiction but seems a long way off that this wouldn’t happen because even if we split money, he will come to me if he runs out and I really struggle to say no!
I'm not sure how nice... or Christian... ethical it was, but I finally tracked down every account, investment, retirement, checking and savings... (because a person in treatment has to have someone pay bills, right? And having some passwords, it was fairly easy to track down everything. ) and I had myself added to all of it, with signatures from him. He was not in a position to refuse, since he wasn't "hiding" anything, he just thought I trusted him with the money. (narcissistic maneuver #4) So I wanted to protect myself regardless of what he tried to move or change in future. I will now see it in real time, and my signature would be required if transaction was over a certain amount.
Here's the climax of a way-too- story: I opened an account in MY NAME ONLY, and transferred what I thought I might need in the immediate future. He didn't get home until three weeks later, and he was so far behind on everything, he didn't even notice. Get your own (secret) account and start putting in a few dollars as you are able. If you ever do leave, it may be a few nights' hotel bill, gas for your car, application fees for an apt....
Hi my name is Michelle and I am new here. Started listening to the podcast on Spotify because I am in love with a man who drinks to much a couple times a week. Many nights he gets angry and goes on a rampage (never hits) and never remembers the next day. My kids and I have been dealing with this for three years but we love him and want him to get better. He is full of empty promises and I am tired of being disappointed. These last two weeks since finding the podcast have been better not because he has been better but because I am not allowing him to control me or my responses. I am taking back control of my life and allowing him to make his own choices without me nagging and begging him to choose me. I choose me. Thanks Michelle Lisa Anderson
Your podcast has brought me so much comfort in knowing I am not facing this alone. My husband has had a secret vodka drinking problem for over 20 years. He denied it and made me think I was crazy. I found bottles hidden in his clothes closet and in our garage over the last 17 years. He retired 18 months ago and began getting hammered every evening ( he was almost always drunk by the time I came downstairs from my office) but would yell loudly “WRONG” when I said he was drunk. He would pass out by 8 most nights. We recently moved to our dream retirement home in the coast of NC but he has made it more of a nightmare. We had a large group of friends come for a long weekend (I am a runner and we were running a half marathon and my husband was volunteering). He was great for 2 days and the 3rd day he disappeared in the garage and within an hour he peed his pants and fell down and could not get up. He humiliated me beyond my wildest nightmare. Our friends were extremely supportive. He agreed to get help. He had an evaluation the following week and before he started an IOP program he was arrested for DWI. I feel like my life has been turned upside down. I don’t love him but I am 59 and was looking forward to a nice retirement. I am not confident he will ever be sober. My life has been hell. Your podcast made me realize I am not alone. Thank you!
Not just "not alone": we are traveling that road with you, seeing ourselves in the mirrors others put up, feeling a wasted life that we wish we'd had the benefit of time travel so we could reclaim those years.
I am 55, so right there with you. But I am learning, trying, to plan the best day of my life every day, and to plan my life after DH. It is lovely, calm, private, purposeful. Whichever way you go, staying or leaving, try to go ONE WHOLE DAY only being responsible for you, ignoring him when he is not sober, and going to lunch or a movie with a friend. Don't even tell him you're going. I tore a page out of the AA book and decided I would take it one day at a time. I fail at it as much as I succeed, but it's progress.
love this community. I am trying to detach but I need some clarification and maybe you all can help.
my AH and I live in the same house (on opposite ends right now) and im trying to focus on self and not do all the things we aren’t supposed to do. BUT.... how do I act when are are home at the same time. im still so angry about the lies I can’t just pretend to be nice. if I ignore him he just gets angry. any advice??
Unless he is violent or abusive, ignore his tantrum as much as you can. If you are confined to a bedroom, maybe put a comfy chair and small side table in there. Or a desk. Do something you would want to be doing even if he weren't there. And don't ignore him if he's sober. Just be cordial so it's not so tense. (You're gonna have to eat!! ( One time I actually considered buying a fridge, microwave, toaster oven, and coffee pot for the guest room. Didn't do it, but maybe you are stronger than I am.
Mine is going out of town this week, sweet bliss, but I am going to work on these very things myself. Maybe I can improve.
One upside: he hasn't said a word about all the work I am having done to the house (long overdue). So I am getting EVERYTHING down to the carpet frizzle in the den. It IS gratifying, if a little snide.
I’m a Love Over Addiction alumna forever grateful for and living out what I learned in that program. Husband still drinks but my life is going well. I enjoy his dry days and hold my drinking related boundaries on his wet days, but overall I no longer look to husband’s state of being to dictate how I will feel. 😀 Thank you, Michelle.
I love this! How have you got to this point of what sounds like bliss?! To not have your life and mood/emotions/well-being controlled by their addiction 🙏
Through lots and lots of self-study and work, which began with Codependent No More, then Michelle’s former program Love Over Addiction, and AlAnon. I still feel angry when he drinks, but I’m able to release him to do what he’s going to do and take care of me.
GRT Q -I’d love to know too
I am Rachel...my husband of 11 years(today) and I just separated less than a week ago. We have 2 sons, ages 5 and 8. We are currently taking turns staying at the house with the boys, making a schedule with the kids. I have been putting in the work while he has not. I got pushed to it being enough last week after finding something in his work bag and him getting hammered again, plus after being told multiple times drunk and sober, “I’m done, leave me, divorce, etc”. So I made the steps. We’re going to therapy together next week where I plan to ask and bring up infidelity. I feel sick all the time and my guilt has me torn in half. Your episodes of your podcast has helped me tremendously lately. I have to keep thinking, this is for my family and my boys.
One thing I learned over the years and years of dealing with an alcoholic husband is - therapy can’t work while they are actively using.
And I wish I had stood stronger to just do all of it for myself - to get myself strong enough to leave and really work on myself and why I sacrificed so much to make something work that isn’t working.💕 hugs
Hi Rachel, this all sounds really tough I’m sorry. You’re right though, it’s for your boys and you should follow your intuition and not doubt yourself. Luckily, infidelity isn’t something I worry about in this relationship but I think that really would tip me over the edge. I feel this is unforgivable for me.
Hoping therapy goes as well as it can and you get your answers x
Hi everyone, I’m hoping this is the right place to post but going off Michelle’s question it’s probably a good place to start. I’ve been in an on/off relationship (more on than off) with a man I believe to be my soulmate for 6 years. The problem, I adore him, and absolutely detest HIM, the other side of him, the addiction. That’s how I can best describe a relationship with an addict - there’s two of them in there, and I’m desperately holding on for the one I love. When he is around, I can feel blissfully happy and we have a great relationship full of love and happiness with our two boys aged 4, and 2 weeks!
But then there’s HIM. I dread HIM being around and feel a lot of anger and resentment towards him for what he has done to our relationship and the trauma he has caused over the years. It’s so strange because although we know they are the same person, they are worlds apart.
We’ve gotten over some pretty big stuff, and lived to tell the tail stronger than ever. But lately, I’ve seen a lot of HIM, and we are struggling, my loved one is struggling. One of our biggest arguments at the moment is around money, because HE spends an insane amount of money on non-prescription pain medication, and I’m worried it’s going to get us into a lot of bother. Does anyone have tips on how to handle finances if you choose to stay??? I have access to the money and when not on maternity I earn more than him and most things are in my name so I know I’m very lucky in that way, to not be trapped with no way out like so many of you.
The other thing I’m working on is trying to not control the addiction, let go and focus on myself but it’s so so hard! We both have a long way to go I think.
Sorry for the long post and thanks for reading, any and all advice greatly appreciated!!!!
xx
Are you married to MY husband?!?!
It is just so strange, the predictability of alcoholic behavior. And yet I (and others I'm hearing) somehow convince myself that my situation is different so I don't have to face the truth that he is no different from any other HIM. (Thanks, Amy. That is how I feel too, like he is 2 people.)
Yes, it is so refreshing to hear others talk about him being two different people. When he drinks and says his terrible things, he doesn't seem to remember them in the morning. But then after that he will go for several days and not drink, (like he knows something was amis) and everything is wonderful. My husband is almost ready to retire, and I foolishly hope that when the stress of his job is gone, that he will not drink. He seems to drink to escape... but I probably am not correct.
I hope that is true in your case. I don't ever want to diminish hope for anyone! But I would encourage hanging your hat on rational thought and evidence. I have been pretty bad at this at different times along the journey--and every time time I have "hoped" without reason, I have suffered the same disappointment over and over. So much easier said than done. The lesson has taken YEARS for me to learn and longer still for me to let go of anything that lets his behaviors and choices control my happiness. Still not there yet. I just know that I have to do it, I have to start putting the eggs in MY basket! My husband started for various reasons...continued for others..and continues today for others. He'll always have these "reasons," but now he IS the disease. It is driving his brain on a level he can't even see. The only end will be his acceptance that he needs help, that he is an alcoholic, and that he can never drink again. (Moderation Management?? Yeah, right.). They have NO CONTROL over alcohol after the first sip; their only control is commitment to abstinence.
I have rented a place and am moving out this weekend. I have left for a few nights before, but at a friend's house or a hotel. He is struggling so much with all of this, alongside his mother's death this month and his serious alcohol-related health problems. But I can't help him. Not until he decides to stay sober. It worries me to leave when things are really hard for him right now. I know that I have to, for him and for me.
Whatever the outcome of your family's struggle, I wish you strength to get through it and hope for your own future.
Tara,
I'm so sorry to hear of your family's crisis now. Thank you that through it, you chose to encourage me. Bless you as you navigate this next step. It is nice to know we have a community to walk with. Stay strong.
Hi. I’m Sandra. I just subscribed (I had followed Michelle in LOA not too long before she closed it). I don’t tend to do too much talking. For some reason I find it exhausting. I do most of my living inside my head. I’m not an introvert or an extrovert (just learned the term “ambivert”, which seems to fit), I just prefer to listen than talk. Maybe this forum will develop the talking (typing? …verbal expression) skill more.
I’m reading everything Michelle writes and all of the comments and gleaning all the wisdom. What a gift to have this blessed place in the midst of the insanity.
I felt the need to comment here, because Amy’s comments about 2 different people - her beloved husband and then HIM - resonates so much with me, and I’m sure with many (all?) of us. I had come to call my husband Dr Jekyll and Mr Hyde. I ADORE Dr Jekyll. And vacillate between pitying and loathing Mr Hyde, depending on my mood.
I have just put my foot down and told Dr Jekyll that if he drinks again (my house in my name), that he can pack up what he can carry and he’s out. The rest of his belongings will be in bags in the garage for a yet undetermined length of time. That he is to “do you” and I’m “do(ing) me” and if he can stay sober for a month, we can revisit whether or not he can work on rebuilding my trust because he’s decimated it at this point.
Now, I’m in a position of power because I have all the resources and he came into this relationship with none, following 35+ years of alcoholism/DUIs/prison. I’ve learned more about this disease than I ever wanted to. I’m also a very strong person (read: stubborn when I want to be) and I’ve supported myself after a failed 22 year prior marriage (he wasn’t an alcoholic. Just a narcissist.). I know many of you aren’t in that position and I know how blessed I am to be. My AH has no financial resources and as an empath (RN by career, go figure lol), my tendency is to have compassion on him and his suffering. But I don’t have the physical or emotional reserve for his nonsense. He knows he’s an alcoholic. I truly believe he hates the sequelae of his drinking. But clearly he wants the alcohol more than anything else or he would have achieved long term sobriety by now. He has had every tool at his disposal to do so. He’ll do the work for awhile and then seemingly out of the blue, whether the rest of his life is going well or not, he’s back to pickling his brain. I’ve worked very hard for the modest home I have and I fear he could destroy it in one of his blackout states (he’s left food cooking on the stove).
I’m off the roller coaster and depending on the HS and my closest friends to keep me accountable to stay off the coaster! I’m not so young anymore and roller coasters rattle my brain too much now, anyway! Lol
Whew! I need a nap now! Haha
Im really grateful to be here and I love all of you, sister tribe! You’re all in my prayers. I’d love to be in yours. *hugs*
I love that LOA helped me understand these secrets. As a successful business person and general problem solver, it was very hard for me to let go of my husband’s alcoholism and to stop trying to fix it. I won’t lie and paint a sunny picture of us - I’m very intentionally detached from him now as I focus on staying in my lane. I don’t react to what time he comes home or in what state, and I no longer count the beer cans from the night before. Sometimes it feels heartless and bitter, but I have to remind myself of the lies and how this disease sucks you in without you even knowing it. Cunning truly is the perfect word.
Me, too. But I haven't been successful in maintaining my boundaries in difficult times: his mom died, his dad has early stage dementia, he's sick (again) and may end up in hospital (again). I find myself suspending the "rules" at these times and not resetting them until he has an all-out 3+day binge and does NOTHING he is supposed to do. I lose it, redraw lines, and stay in my lane... until the next time.
Don’t beat yourself up about this - you’re an empath and clearly care deeply. So much so you sacrifice your own well-being for his which I’m sure we all do x
In SAME scenario
Mary it sounds like you’re a pro at this! I’m still learning all these things 6 years in x
Sadly, I am. It took YEARS for me to understand and really have those learnings sink in. I recall once during LOA times, being scolded for posting about something my AH did because I was focused on him and not me. It wasn’t until later that I realized how destructive that was. I know we all feel the need to vent when they do something stupid or hurtful, but maybe that just feeds the monster.
YES!!!! I did the exact same thing! It’s really all about self preservation.
Judy, I feel the same way.. I disconnected to protect myself and there is absolutely NO chance of him getting any sex because I just resent him most days and want to vomit at the thought of it. I can’t remember the last time we were intimate. Every time I get close to having those feelings again, he messes up and starts drinking or binges for a week.
They can be pigs, can't they?
Hi, I'm a previous LoA learner and so glad Michelle that you haven't gone away entirely. I started, then abandoned, the program because frankly it was too hard facing myself at the time. 6 years into a relationship with a heavy alcoholic who used his depression and anxiety labels to justify bad behavior and abuse of alcohol, emotional abuse of most around him, including my kids and especially daughter, I changed the locks on the doors one day after he threatened me after I pushed back when he started verbally abusing her again. Got a restraining order shortly after. Went back to him secretly in his new location, got tired of his self-pity and blame and trying to guilt me into helping him financially (I did. to great expense.) Finally I cut it off. My pattern is to put up with a lot then cut the cord abruptly. I'm grateful for the last part.
Fast forward 3 years and I married a wonderful man who I thought drank too regularly but was otherwise sweet, caring, thoughtful, dependable, fun, responsible... you get it. Then, after we came home from our wedding, he had 4 days of nightly episodes of not functioning. I thought he was anxious about his new role at work and a catastrophic car repair cost, and that he was drinking too much, so I told him. On the 4th night, I told him the next time I saw him like this I'd call the paramedics and let them gaslight me if necessary. He then confessed to an oxy addiction started 15 years ago after a surgery, day drinking, hoarding/hiding, financial issues I didn't know about, etc.
He decided to use FMLA and go to detox/rehab. I have to say the detox/rehab experience was very disappointing from the perspective of arming with actual tools to do the work. More like a high-cost daycare for adult children (they are, and they aren't) that teaches not a lot, except that you need them.
I've decided to wait and try to process my sense of betrayal and am in a "wait and see" pattern.
He's been sober 2 months, taking meds to stay sober, changing his personality a bit to much less vibrant. He slipped on drinking while at a golf event for work, came home slurring, and the next day apologized for it. After he tried pretending and asserting it was no big deal. I said what he thought about it was less important to me than the insult of being gaslit about what I saw, observed, and the risks that implied. I was just numb and said I can't control it, but I can control myself and that there was no point for me in being in a relationship where I'm the loyal caretaker for someone who gaslights me and denies the facts about actions and effects. I said I have two almost grown kids, what does he think I'm signing up for? I'm evaluating that.
He apologized, etc. I can confidently say I'm less afraid than ever to lose him. It will be sad. I'll have to face my "failure" to recognize signs and trust too much.
I'm focusing on new work to ensure I am financially better off being solo, in case...
I know he loves me, I know he doesn't want a problem, I know he knows the oxy has really damaged him (oh, and Ambien - want to sue that doc), but he thinks that 7 years of heavy drinking isn't really a problem because it wasn't a problem before. It's the selective denial that gives me pause.
Anyway, that's my story. Thank you for listening. I'm going to give myself an hour a week here to ground in this reality while I focus on myself in the other hours. I've been really stuck in the "not me, not yet" zone and it is RIDICULOUS! My whole adult life has been pleasing others and underestimating myself, making myself smaller to "support" and protect my partners' ambitions (husband 1 of 20 years, no addiction to substances, just himself and conveying I should be more, give more, etc) and to protect their recovery (the last 2 relationships).
I ask, "Who is protecting our recovery?" I know it is up to us.
Much love and empathy to you all. I'm really grateful for this space again. Thank you Michelle and everyone for baring your souls.
I wanted to write notes in the margins! Yes, me too, wtf, OMG, yes yes yes. I shouldn't be surprised at all any more; but I continue to be flabbergasted at both the conistency of themes, feelings, plans, resentment.... But also by how very much addicts are all exactly the same in the most crucial ways. Since it's so predictable, why are treatment facilities, researchers, doctors able to build better treatments based on THIS ISNOT WORKING FOR EVERYBODY! I know it's my husband who is failing to engage; but since so many men have this in common, shouldn't someone by trying new practices to help them?? Or refund the money, ha ha. I wish I had the thousands and thousands of dollars spent on: medical bills (CCU three times) and paying max put-off-pocket for the past 5 years; residential, PH, IOP, therapy programs; vodka (oh yes, the stash); lost billable hours (that's how he gets paid at his job), money he "invests" while day- trading drunk; and all the people I have to to do things around the house that he could easily do, if... I'd buy myself a nice little house and MOVE!
Hi all - What would I have done without getting myself help? I started therapy and it was suggested to me to check out LOA. That was 2 years ago and I'm still here. I never thought that this is what I would be dealing with in my life but here I am. My husband has been in addiction for at least 10 years. Our lives used to be all about microbrews and checking out new breweries where ever we were. He brewed his own beer and won many accolades in doing so. He has an incredible palate and could tell you all about the ingredients, etc. Then he started having issues with work and his solution was to drink but it wasn't beer, it was hard alcohol. We hardly ever had hard alcohol! One day I knew he wasn't right and I found a locked draw in the garage. I pried that sucker open and found about 2 dozen empty vodka bottles!!! It all spiraled from there!! Fast forward...after many talks and finding more empties, pushing him to go to an IOP, more empties, the lying, screaming and pleading, moving to separate rooms in the house, ER for detox with a 3 night stay, finding him inebriated on the floor of the garage, calling his brother because I can't do this anymore, going to a 4 week in-patient rehab, more relapses... It's exhausting! I'm exhausted! and then they wonder why it's so hard to love them anymore...because I'm exhausted! He is currently sober. This time he is about 4 months into it. I can tell he is getting frustrated because he doesn't know how to enjoy life. He has no hobbies, no friends. He goes to work and watches TV. He has been going to therapy but doesn't know what he is supposed to be getting out of it. It's a struggle for him to 'talk'. He wants someone to give him the answer of how to fix his problem. I feel like the struggle with the depression and anxiety are getting the best of him and that he will break his sobriety sooner rather than later. I can't fix him. I have to stay in my lane and take care of me. I haven't worked for the last 5 years and just recently started a new job. I think that has thrown him for a loop. It is my way of setting a boundary that says I am not available to you whenever. It's a vicious cycle. I have contemplated many times of leaving him but then why should I have to leave? Then he gets sober and things seems to iron out a bit. And then the other shoe drops and we go through this all over again. He always apologizes the next day that he screwed up. I finally told him that I no longer wanted to hear his apologies because they meant nothing to me. I finally told him that I can't help him. It makes it really tough to continue with a relationship. He is not the man I married. We have been married for 35 years and it's so hard to walk away but then again, is it? No kids, 2 pets and a lifetime of memories. I used to be good about doing a photo book to summarize each year. I have not done one for 5 years now because they aren't very happy memories of us. They would be more about the things that I have done without him. So sad. He is really struggling with how to be happy with life. I am not sure what to tell him but I know he has to figure it out. Like with the addiction, he has to figure it out. I have become a different person because I have had to figure out how to love life on my own. I have had to become independent. He doesn't understand why I am not into 'us'. I have to be very mindful of how I word things to him. I know he is sick but I get so tired of having to tip-toe around his feelings because I am just over it sometimes. I want to tell him he just needs to man up and figure it out because that is what I have been doing for years now. It is so very frustrating!
YUP
I understand 💕
Has anyone had to change the way they deal with finances? I’m quite lucky in that our home, cars etc are in my name. I bought it when we were separated so it’s nice to have that security. We do share finances though and his spending is so out of control that it’s getting us into a bad place and I’m very anxious about it. I’m trying to separate this too so we have a joint account for bills etc but then we each manage our own money. At the moment, we argue more about money and his irresponsible spending than we do about his codeine use. I’m not prepared to sacrifice nice things in life and/or struggle financially for his addiction but seems a long way off that this wouldn’t happen because even if we split money, he will come to me if he runs out and I really struggle to say no!
I'm not sure how nice... or Christian... ethical it was, but I finally tracked down every account, investment, retirement, checking and savings... (because a person in treatment has to have someone pay bills, right? And having some passwords, it was fairly easy to track down everything. ) and I had myself added to all of it, with signatures from him. He was not in a position to refuse, since he wasn't "hiding" anything, he just thought I trusted him with the money. (narcissistic maneuver #4) So I wanted to protect myself regardless of what he tried to move or change in future. I will now see it in real time, and my signature would be required if transaction was over a certain amount.
Here's the climax of a way-too- story: I opened an account in MY NAME ONLY, and transferred what I thought I might need in the immediate future. He didn't get home until three weeks later, and he was so far behind on everything, he didn't even notice. Get your own (secret) account and start putting in a few dollars as you are able. If you ever do leave, it may be a few nights' hotel bill, gas for your car, application fees for an apt....
And they wonder why we don't "just leave."
Yes, new to me as well.
Hi my name is Michelle and I am new here. Started listening to the podcast on Spotify because I am in love with a man who drinks to much a couple times a week. Many nights he gets angry and goes on a rampage (never hits) and never remembers the next day. My kids and I have been dealing with this for three years but we love him and want him to get better. He is full of empty promises and I am tired of being disappointed. These last two weeks since finding the podcast have been better not because he has been better but because I am not allowing him to control me or my responses. I am taking back control of my life and allowing him to make his own choices without me nagging and begging him to choose me. I choose me. Thanks Michelle Lisa Anderson
Is that rosemary on that chicken? 🤔 And olives in the veggie mix? 😍
Your podcast has brought me so much comfort in knowing I am not facing this alone. My husband has had a secret vodka drinking problem for over 20 years. He denied it and made me think I was crazy. I found bottles hidden in his clothes closet and in our garage over the last 17 years. He retired 18 months ago and began getting hammered every evening ( he was almost always drunk by the time I came downstairs from my office) but would yell loudly “WRONG” when I said he was drunk. He would pass out by 8 most nights. We recently moved to our dream retirement home in the coast of NC but he has made it more of a nightmare. We had a large group of friends come for a long weekend (I am a runner and we were running a half marathon and my husband was volunteering). He was great for 2 days and the 3rd day he disappeared in the garage and within an hour he peed his pants and fell down and could not get up. He humiliated me beyond my wildest nightmare. Our friends were extremely supportive. He agreed to get help. He had an evaluation the following week and before he started an IOP program he was arrested for DWI. I feel like my life has been turned upside down. I don’t love him but I am 59 and was looking forward to a nice retirement. I am not confident he will ever be sober. My life has been hell. Your podcast made me realize I am not alone. Thank you!
Not just "not alone": we are traveling that road with you, seeing ourselves in the mirrors others put up, feeling a wasted life that we wish we'd had the benefit of time travel so we could reclaim those years.
I am 55, so right there with you. But I am learning, trying, to plan the best day of my life every day, and to plan my life after DH. It is lovely, calm, private, purposeful. Whichever way you go, staying or leaving, try to go ONE WHOLE DAY only being responsible for you, ignoring him when he is not sober, and going to lunch or a movie with a friend. Don't even tell him you're going. I tore a page out of the AA book and decided I would take it one day at a time. I fail at it as much as I succeed, but it's progress.
hey friends,
love this community. I am trying to detach but I need some clarification and maybe you all can help.
my AH and I live in the same house (on opposite ends right now) and im trying to focus on self and not do all the things we aren’t supposed to do. BUT.... how do I act when are are home at the same time. im still so angry about the lies I can’t just pretend to be nice. if I ignore him he just gets angry. any advice??
Unless he is violent or abusive, ignore his tantrum as much as you can. If you are confined to a bedroom, maybe put a comfy chair and small side table in there. Or a desk. Do something you would want to be doing even if he weren't there. And don't ignore him if he's sober. Just be cordial so it's not so tense. (You're gonna have to eat!! ( One time I actually considered buying a fridge, microwave, toaster oven, and coffee pot for the guest room. Didn't do it, but maybe you are stronger than I am.
Mine is going out of town this week, sweet bliss, but I am going to work on these very things myself. Maybe I can improve.
One upside: he hasn't said a word about all the work I am having done to the house (long overdue). So I am getting EVERYTHING down to the carpet frizzle in the den. It IS gratifying, if a little snide.
Love. This. thanks for the advice!! our house upkeep has also been neglected- maybe I’ll join you in some executive decision making!!